LTKA - What you had to say about fingerprinting at school (against schools fingerprinting our children)

"This will be a very exciting project for the school which will have real benefits for the education of our children." Tony Davies, Head Teacher, St Matthew's Primary School, Cambridge

"To people like Mr Davies, computerising things is 'exciting'. If he thinks that, he probably doesn't know much about computers." Parent, St Matthew's Primary School, Cambridge

"It's not at all exciting. It's SINISTER!" Parent, St Matthew's Primary School, Cambridge

"I am concerned about the nature of [some of] the corporations that are overseeing the implementation of biometrics in this country - namely world leaders in arms manufacture; they make tanks and fighter jets. Why are they putting security systems in our schools?" Concerned parent, Cornwall

"Aside from anecdotal evidence in sales literature, there is nothing educational about fingerprinting our children." Parent, St Matthew's Primary School, Cambridge

"Mr Davies is now presumably aware that there are people who object and must be regretting the way he's gone about it, if only for the amount of his time it's already consumed. Presumably what he wants is for everything to go smoothly and quickly and he's found out that for this to happen he has to consider how others (parents) might react. Even so, he could make life a lot easier for everyone, including himself, by sending out consent forms, in exactly the way they do regularly for school trips and the like." Parent, St Matthew's Primary School, Cambridge

"It seems rather over the top, and that it's without the consent of parents beggars belief. Especially when parental consent is required for so many other things, not least s*x education, swimming lessons, and away trips. So why not the capturing of biometrics information, the use of which seems a little murky, and rather ominous, and in a time when identity theft is of growing concern. Surely children's identities are of equal value, and deserve equal protection and appropriate consent." Richard Leyton

"It's something parents should have been asked about beforehand. And that they should have specifically been asked to give their consent to. If they agree, fair enough; that's their prerogative - though I wouldn't agree with them. But for the school simply to assume that it can collect personal information on kids without specific consent is not on. At least, not in my opinion and I imagine in yours." Parent, St Matthew's Primary School, Cambridge

"I think it was pretty dishonest of them to introduce this system without giving parents longer warning and more information about it. It's hard to imagine they didn't foresee that someone would object." Parent, St Matthew's Primary School, Cambridge

"Very few parents I've spoken to were aware about what was going on, at least until the [second] letter from the head came back on Thursday/Friday. Which doesn't give much time. I've heard from one of the governors that they are in favour of the scheme; that is hardly surprising as they must have agreed it some time ago. Of parents I have spoken to, the reactions are what you'd expect: some are in favour, which is their privilege; some don't really like the idea but are prepared to go along with it; some are against but don't really know what to do." Parent, St Matthew's Primary School, Cambridge

"I couldn't protect my child. I feel so guilty. I didn't get the school's letter." Parent, Chesterton Community College, Cambs

"I want to do more, yet I feel ineffective... I feel that an individual stands no chance of being heard." Concerned parent, Cornwall

"I notice the most recent letter home specifies tomorrow as the opt-out deadline, presumably in order to close the issue before the [Annual school] meeting" Parent, St Matthew's Primary School, Cambridge

"We didn't have any choice. We found out afterwards." Parent, Impington Community College, Cambs

"I am going to print up some leaflets and put them in my car window. anything to get the message across to parents who are not in the knowledge of this deceitful act. I will definitely be approaching the Headmistress and my daughter's previous Headmaster." Concerned parent, Manchester

"I've spoken to quite a number of parents about the thumbprinting scheme and there are lots who simply don't like it, for whatever reason, but don't really know what to do about it. For instance, a parent who I was speaking to outside school today had in fact written to the school to have her sons exempted, but was a bit nervous about it because, like so many, she was worried about rocking the boat and that this might come down on her own children." Parent, St Matthew's Primary School, Cambridge

"I didn't make a fuss because she's just started here and I didn't want to rock the boat. Which is probably one of those excuses that resonates through history..." Concerned parent, via email

"I thought long and hard before making my feelings known to both the school and to my MP; however, I found that the issues raised concerns that I could not ignore. Despite having reservations about being perceived as a troublemaker I think it is important to stand up for what one believes in." Concerned parent, Cornwall

"I am going to find as many parents of my son's school mates as I can to discuss this matter with. I also hope to address a parent-teacher meeting at some point. I find this a little daunting to tell the truth but it must be done. I do also like the idea of handing out literature at the school gate.

I will also be dealing with the school directly and asking the board of governers for an inquiry into the headmaster's reluctance to provide me with the information that I requested of him under the Freedom of Information Act." Concerned parent, Bristol

"Obviously, MOST parents - most people - just accept what's going on without making a fuss. And in the case of the school, many parents are afraid to make a fuss because they're afraid it will make problems for their children. So, if you ask people specifically to opt out, you'll get a few doing so but not many - which would be exactly the same as if you asked them to opt in." Parent, St Matthew's Primary School, Cambridge

"Good to find that more people are putting their heads above the parapet. The problem is that many parents are reluctant to object to anything schools decide to do, either because they believe that the authorities know best or because they're afraid it will cause trouble for their own children." Parent, St Matthew's Primary School, Cambridge

"Big Brother at work again." NW of McFalls, ME, letter to the Portland Press Herald Monday, June 19, 2006

"This is terrible, but it doesn't surprise me at all. I fear we are moving towards a society where our every action will be monitored, scrutinised, and stored for future reference." Kate from Doncaster via the BBC Action Network

"Tovarishchi. The KGB would have loved this, and would have used this technology had it been available to them. If I had kids in school, I would forbid this being done to them, being treated like criminals. I think that fingurprinting has already gone over the top... This is going way too far, This is not a good idea." Morgan of Lisbon, ME, letter to the Portland Press Herald Monday, June 19, 2006

"They're actually not your children, you know... For those of you with school age children I would urge you, for the sake of the freedoms we all hold dear, complain, broadcast this news, write to your MP... Do whatever it takes... to get this evil idea scrapped. Concerned blogger

"Like you, I dislike this scheme on principle and therefore dislike it for all concerned. To me, it's both an abuse of public rights and of personal privacy. But the authorities will always take the view that they know best, in which case we can only effectively oppose it in so far as it affects our own child. And I hope others will do the same for theirs." Parent, St Matthew's Primary School, Cambridge

"It is a silly policy. You have got a fight on your hands, forgive the pun, and I wish you well... You should teach your kids to give the fingerprinters the V sign like at Agincourt then keep their hands in their pockets and scream for child support. See, the trouble with fingerprints is they aren't great biometric indicators, too hard to read and uninfomative - DNA though... If you lose on fingerprints I bet in 5 years they'll have your kids DNA too. Good luck." Concerned parent, via Indymedia: Cambridge

"The fingerprinting issue is becoming a really big thing, and I am sure it cannot go on without being taken into consideration by the Education authorities! Withdraw it once and for all from all the libraries of all the schools in the country. I do hope they answer your letter very soon for we all would like to know what they have to say." Parent, St Matthew's Primary School, Cambridge

"I don't want my son's details recorded in any way, shape or form. Sutton library doesn't ask for fingerprints from adults so why on earth are we asking children?" Sarah Chittock, parent Dorchester Primary School, Worcester Park

"They can't ignore specific instructions from parents. We don't need to give any reason for objecting to this scheme and possibly we all have different reasons. That is our privilege... This seems to me to be the best approach." Parent, St Matthew's Primary School, Cambridge

"As a parent I'm going to be having a word with the Headmaster at the school my kids attend to see if they're planning such a scheme (or if its in place already), and I'll be making damn sure that my kids know they shouldn't be forced into submitting fingerprints. Concerned parent, blogged
"Library cards have served us well for many years, and so what if children lose their card now and again? My local library deals with thousands of users, and seems to manage with a card system quite happily." Concerned parent, via email
"Unbelievable! How difficult is it for a child to hold onto a meal debit [or library] card?! This is a huge violation of our children's privacy rights. No way I would ever allow the government to do this to my child. Treat the children as criminals and they will behave as such. The lawsuits stemming from this proposterous fingerprint program will be soon forthcoming. Liz of Hallowell, ME, letter to the Portland Press Herald Monday, June 19, 2006
"Children at my son's school have been fined for books they didn't borrow." Parent, Chesterton Community College, Cambs
"Glad to hear you and your family are being so pro-active. You've come up with things that wouldn't have come into my head (create web-sites and design t-shirts). Good ideas!!" Cambridge resident
"I am thrilled that some action is underway to protest such and intrusive and disrespectful initiative. I have just discovered that my 14 year old son is required to provide a thumbprint to access his school library resources and as with every other parent in the country I was not consulted. I am furious but thanks to sites like yours I feel that my anger is not only justified but extremely necessary. Keep up the good work. I intend to spread the word in a big way." Hannah Walker
"Many thanks for all what you have been doing for our children of St Matthews Primary School. As parents we feel deeply grateful to you for looking after the safety of our children's personal identity." Parents, St Matthew's Primary School, Cambridge

"This is disgusting, catalogued and databased children become catalogued adults as well. Any parents who allow this to happen are destroying their children's future rights as an adult to protect their privacy, and to be innocent until proven guilty. We lose the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty when the state starts tracking and storing information on us.

You will also be indoctrinating your children into the mentality that its fine for those in power to track, trace and monitor you. You will be leading a generation of children into the 'there's no problem if you've got nothing to hide' mentality and into the nightmare world of 1984.

There is no genuine security or safety reason that a primary school library needs thumb printing for, this seems like a creepy 'get them while they're young' scheme in the hope to both have a generation of adults who are in a database even before they have the ability to defend themselves from such tyranny and to have a generation of children who are used to having the state invade their privacy and record their actions.

Already adults today are frightfully complacent toward the panopticon of security cameras that fill our high streets and public places and if you point them out to anybody they are usually blissfully unaware of their existence, this next generation to whom it is the norm to be finger printed will be even more acquiescent toward the tyranny of surveillance, which can only be an even more dangerous thing.

We're having a matrix like network of tracking, tracing, blood testing, monitoring, databasing and finger printing built around us coupled with the gradual slipping of the basic constituents of a free society. Protest, privacy, free speech, private property...one by one the dominoes are falling and eventually we'll be nothing more than slaves in something far more horrific than anything George Orwell could have imagined."

Simeon Heath-Moss, via the BBC Action Network

"I'm shocked that children are being fingerprinted without their parents' consent. Who gave these schools permission to do this? ... These children have had their minds assaulted by letting these teachers take their fingerprint and the said teacher assuring the child that it's okay.

So what else is okay that we, as parents, don't know about? Open your eyes people, we, as a nation, are losing our rights all the time and we are closing in on an Orwellian Planet daily.

As for the person that said what if your relative had been molested or murdered by one of these little angels, they'd be easier to track. Well, the police have enough powers at present to apprehend those types of people without our children's innocent lives being corrupted by that way of thinking. What next? We'll chip everybody so that we can track them wherever they may be.

Which brings me back to being able to control people on a grand scale. 1984 is coming true in 2006. This type of thing is happening globally and if we don't stand up for our rights now we won't have any to stand up for.

Because the state will be thinking for you. I've got a brain, I was born with this brain and it belongs to me not an Orwellian State. I'm right behind the people that are protesting against this happening. We have rights now but who's to say your still going to have them in 10 years?"

Anne Gair, from the Shetland Islands, via the BBC Action Network

"Marx called it 'alienation' and blamed it on the capitalist system. In many respects, however, the disconnection of people from the products of their efforts is in practice now more a function of technology than the economic system. Primary school children have a lot to learn about 'borrowing' and the obligations that entails. Writing your name on a card, to acknowledge the loan, and being able to see that evidence directly, if you failed to honour those obligations; or seeing a line drawn through that signature, as evidence of a completed contract...

All those things serve to bring alive a world of civil obligations. They are part of the curriculum of the primary school. The more we use technology in the interests of efficiency, the more we alienate children from a fundamental understanding of agreements, promises, contracts and bargains. It's a crucial part of the social curriculum, and it is at primary school that it matters more than anywhere, because primary schooling covers those developmental stages at which children begin to appreciate these issues, such as the importance of 'rules' for playing games.

It really matters that such issues are made transparent, simple, comprehensible and immediate. They are not merely about administrative convenience, they are about important social learning.

When I go into my local supermarket, I pick up what I need, I go to the checkout, and I input my PIN. (In the future, of course, I might simply press my right index finger against a sensor). I have a vague idea that I can afford what I have bought, but often I don't even register the exact amount. I'm lucky! Not only do I have a reasonable pension, but more importantly I have grown comfortable with making the calculations which enable me to stay solvent. Understanding borrowing and its obligations is really important. So it should be treated as a big deal in primary schools. And 'big deal' means personal interaction."

Dr James Atherton, learningandteaching.info, via email

The views expressed on this page are those of contributors and do not necessarily reflect those of LeaveThemKidsAlone.com

"Education, Education, Education" Tony Blair "Consent, Consent, Consent" Parents

We are campaigning to have the widespread use of biometrics in schools debated in Parliament, and henceforth strictly regulated and closely monitored, with a statutory requirement for explicit parental consent wherever biometrics are used.

More about schools fingerprinting our children Please help us!

>> 10 Things You Should Know About Schools Fingerprinting Children <<